tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post2468799986494076839..comments2023-11-02T04:40:21.698-07:00Comments on Dr. Eric Edmond's Blog: Another Cameron May strategic errorEric Edmondhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11661176160109187800noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-73372983803713004152017-10-20T03:38:28.837-07:002017-10-20T03:38:28.837-07:00^^^^ @ Stephen Harness - Apologies, I forgot to ad...^^^^ @ Stephen Harness - Apologies, I forgot to add re your point above:<br /><br /> "UKIP were finished the day Cameron promised a referendum before the 2015 GE. UKIP were riding high in the polls looking to make a major breakthrough in the 2015 GE. Cameron took a calculated gamble that he could win the GE and the referendum i.e. stay in the EU." <br /><br />PRECISELY - that was UKIP's greatest triumph. <br /><br />By sticking to the central issue of the eu (and its impact on immigration) and threatening to make the Tories eyes bleed in the forthcoming general election, UKIP forced Cameron to make the referendum promise. That is how history is made. And to be fair to Farage, he deserves credit for helping build UKIP's support to the level where it was finally able to pose a direct threat to the tories' election prospects. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-83207206707315209112017-10-19T11:41:22.195-07:002017-10-19T11:41:22.195-07:00Our current system was designed for a much smaller...Our current system was designed for a much smaller country than now so if we should ignore Switzerland because it is smaller than us we should change our system. However you keep on main point, competition is good and we should make it easier for new entrants in ALL markets.L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-22660002116587958512017-10-19T10:18:36.294-07:002017-10-19T10:18:36.294-07:00^^ @ Fairfax - Switzerland is a country of only 8....^^ @ Fairfax - Switzerland is a country of only 8.5mn people with a completely different history to ours and a radically different system of local and regional government. I accept that coalitions can work effectively in Switzerland. But that doesn't mean they make sense in the UK.Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-63833465821572416632017-10-19T10:14:24.251-07:002017-10-19T10:14:24.251-07:00@ Anonymous - winning 18%+ share of vote and endin...@ Anonymous - winning 18%+ share of vote and ending up with a meagre 20 (5%) share of the seats might not seem 'fair'. <br /><br />But it reflects one of the great strengths of the electoral system as is. First past the post makes it very difficult for "single issue / pressure group" type parties to ever gain any real traction UNLESS they can broaden their appeal to a far wider cross-section of the electorate.<br />I know lots of people will disagree with me but I would maintain that that is one of the great practical benefits of the current system.<br />Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-91301414548869635262017-10-19T07:52:52.117-07:002017-10-19T07:52:52.117-07:00Because of PR?Because of PR?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-47832110115262084542017-10-19T07:43:48.886-07:002017-10-19T07:43:48.886-07:00Because of Clegg.Because of Clegg.L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-56322034925590680072017-10-19T07:31:09.717-07:002017-10-19T07:31:09.717-07:00Because of Farage.Because of Farage.Eric Edmondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11661176160109187800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-4596332678266353652017-10-19T07:05:41.753-07:002017-10-19T07:05:41.753-07:00UKIP had most UK seats in the last European Union ...UKIP had most UK seats in the last European Union elections.<br />Now how did that happen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-39283541288970575512017-10-19T05:47:02.044-07:002017-10-19T05:47:02.044-07:00@Blind Stoat
@"My point is, if we want to ele...@Blind Stoat<br />@"My point is, if we want to elect a government that ultimately has a mandate to govern and make changes as per its manifesto, then we have to accept an element of 'winner takes all' in the electoral process. There is no easy way round that.<br /><br />The alternative almost inevitably leads to multi-coloured, short-lived and ineffectual coalitions."<br />Switzerland has had lots of coalitions and is a lot richer than we are.L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-84368508859736620302017-10-19T05:44:56.492-07:002017-10-19T05:44:56.492-07:0020+ seats would be 5% of the house of commons, tha...20+ seats would be 5% of the house of commons, that does not seem fair to me.<br />However the problem is not fairness to UKIP or another party. The problem is that we have a duopoly of 2 parties, would you like it we had a duopoly in supermarkets? I don't think the Australians like it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-51107030371733800632017-10-19T05:42:58.457-07:002017-10-19T05:42:58.457-07:00@ Fairfax, I absolutely accept your point that peo...@ Fairfax, I absolutely accept your point that people should be allowed to vote for whoever they wish to. <br /><br />My point is, if we want to elect a government that ultimately has a mandate to govern and make changes as per its manifesto, then we have to accept an element of 'winner takes all' in the electoral process. There is no easy way round that. <br /><br />The alternative almost inevitably leads to multi-coloured, short-lived and ineffectual coalitions.Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-37058202747725247092017-10-19T05:35:44.750-07:002017-10-19T05:35:44.750-07:00People quote the rise (and fall) of UKIP as an exa...People quote the rise (and fall) of UKIP as an example of how the system is "unfair". But, I would argue that UKIP is testament to the strength of our current system. True, UKIP didn't win a single Westminster seat in 2010 versus the SNP achieved almost a full house in Scotland. <br /><br />But that's because until 2013/14 UKIP was always a fringe party. It only began to represent a real threat to the established parties in the run-up to the 2015 election. For a while some of the polls were suggesting that UKIP could achieve in excess of 20% of the poll. Certainly 16-18% looked like a realistic possibility. But in the event UKIP finished with a disappointing 12%. In simple terms, it failed. Had it achieved 18%+, it would inevitably have won a slew of seats - not just one or two, but potentially 20+. Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-20859783990621415752017-10-19T05:29:18.775-07:002017-10-19T05:29:18.775-07:00@Blind Stoat,
Not sure it could be a good thing i...@Blind Stoat,<br /><br />Not sure it could be a good thing if it wakes us up to the threat of Islam. <br />If people want bad parties they should be allowed to vote for them, making it difficult for new bad (and of course new good) parties to protect us from extremism does not seem very democratic. And ironically has given London a Mayor who think Terrorism is a fact of life in a big city (he has obviously never heard of Warsaw).L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-38022452941087349592017-10-19T05:24:10.895-07:002017-10-19T05:24:10.895-07:00@ Fairfax - and what would your response be if, sa...@ Fairfax - and what would your response be if, say, the Muslim Brotherhood party started winning seats in places such as Wolverhampton and Kettering?<br /><br />There is virtue in continuity and political change should be evolutionary rather than revolutionary<br /><br />Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-30388778388753076042017-10-19T05:15:27.033-07:002017-10-19T05:15:27.033-07:00@Blind Stoat
Why is it that a good thing? I remem...@Blind Stoat<br />Why is it that a good thing? I remember a joke about Trump. Someone said to Trump "You have destroyed the republican party", Trump "Job half done".<br />That is how I feel about all our political parties.L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-1604427468279841382017-10-19T05:09:18.457-07:002017-10-19T05:09:18.457-07:00^^ @ both Fairfax and Dr Edmond. I do not agree wi...^^ @ both Fairfax and Dr Edmond. I do not agree with either of you.<br /><br />A) Yes, agreed it IS difficult for new parties to become established within the UK system and there are good reasons why we should wish that to continue.<br /><br />B) Yes, the House of Lords is a second rate, shoddy institution filled with corrupt and venal placemen - but no, an executive commission nominated by an elected 'President' is not the answer.Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-35259524045768118832017-10-19T01:49:33.156-07:002017-10-19T01:49:33.156-07:00Problem is not the number of MPs but constituency ...Problem is not the number of MPs but constituency boundaries. No of constituencies equals number of MPs. US House of Representatives has 445 members.<br /><br />Other problem is legislature and Executive are all mixed up. I would suggest terminating all members of HoL and replacing it with an executive commission nominated by an elected President ie the US system. This will free us from our current juvenile politicians and make us similar to the EU which most of our MPs love. All ministers would be in the new HoL and its care home function would cease.<br /><br />It would save us tens of millions and improve government no end. Don't tinker, innovate.Eric Edmondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11661176160109187800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-42665205753456794442017-10-19T01:05:01.230-07:002017-10-19T01:05:01.230-07:00The biggest problem with our voting system is that...The biggest problem with our voting system is that it makes hard for new parties to appear like UKIP/Lib Dems - if we had the same system as in Germany then new parties could appear more easily. We want low barriers for new entrants to markets so we have more choice. If supermarkets were like politics Lidl etc would have never opened up here.L fairfaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274756119129254373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-71318526330901082172017-10-18T23:39:55.500-07:002017-10-18T23:39:55.500-07:00I couldn't agree with you more.I couldn't agree with you more.Niall Warrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-83694599950849077082017-10-18T08:28:32.123-07:002017-10-18T08:28:32.123-07:00^^ or, to put it another way, if we were to have t...^^ or, to put it another way, if we were to have the same average popualtion per MP as we had in 1945, we would need to create an additional 210 constituencies.Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-17222189852531993362017-10-18T08:11:02.492-07:002017-10-18T08:11:02.492-07:00I'm not convinced that we need a radical overh...I'm not convinced that we need a radical overhaul of the constituencies and I have never subscribed to the view that we should be reducing the overall number of seats - and to argue that we should be doing so on grounds of cost control when there are 800+ peers happily collecting their daily £300 stipend is a complete nonsense. <br /><br />In 1945 there were 640 seats and the total UK population was approx 49mn. As of now we have 650 seats and the population has increased to 65mn. Agreed in 1945 some voters had 2x votes and some constituencies had 2x members but, give or take, each MP represented a population of 76,000 - versus today an average MP represents more than 100,000 people. So, question: has our 'representative democracy' become more or less 'representative' since 1945?<br /><br />Agreed, currently there are some obvious imbalances that need to be addressed - e.g. the Isle of Wight should really be 2x seats. But the easiest way to tackle the problem in my view, would be to increase the overall number of seats. Removing one or two Welsh seats and adding say, 10 in the South East would be relatively straightforward and fairly painless to achieve.Blind stoathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213002894261695567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-70683845984623105362017-10-18T06:57:56.227-07:002017-10-18T06:57:56.227-07:00UKIP NEC full of big minds like Duffy so what do y...UKIP NEC full of big minds like Duffy so what do you expect?Eric Edmondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11661176160109187800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-19811087248465126582017-10-18T05:44:27.943-07:002017-10-18T05:44:27.943-07:00UKIP were finished the day Cameron promised a refe...UKIP were finished the day Cameron promised a referendum before the 2015 GE. UKIP were riding high in the polls looking to make a major breakthrough in the 2015 GE. Cameron took a calculated gamble that he could win the GE and the referendum i.e. stay in the EU. <br />He failed but he did manage to leave UKIP without a crusade to fight. UKIP also failed to pick up another cause to champion. A change in the political voting system would have served well. Stephen Harnessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-63693586450662479722017-10-17T13:40:36.615-07:002017-10-17T13:40:36.615-07:00Heard say she failed to win and failed to lose the...Heard say she failed to win and failed to lose the GE having the facilities to fine tune the result. Questions/suspicions arise. Alienating traditional voters etc. While Corbyn making promises. Both soaking up UKIP votes trusting the Tories to come good on Brexit. Baroness heard say on TV "annihilate UKIP" Remember the old saying "Never trust a Tory" What hope?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6112651969466158066.post-84014605252910235462017-10-17T13:20:01.700-07:002017-10-17T13:20:01.700-07:00You can either include Scotland or keep it separat...You can either include Scotland or keep it separate. Either way May would have a majority and who cares about the SNP? Not me!Eric Edmondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11661176160109187800noreply@blogger.com