Friday, 22 September 2017

Brexit delayed will be Brexit denied

Nigel Farage summed up May's Florence speech as,

Kicked Brexit into the long grass in best Sir Jeremy Coverup style

A victory for the political elite

A victory for Goldman Sachs

and two fingers to the 17.4 million Brits that voted for Brexit

See for yourself on link below


As Farage pointed out her speech to an empty UN chamber two days earlier showed she would sell us out to Brussels and she did just that today. She is naive with poor political judgement and is not up to the job of  PM. I hope she is removed at the Tory conference in two weeks time. She has to go or Brexit will never happen. She is more concerned with placating big business and Brussels  than implementing the will of the British people. She is no patriot.

Trevor Kavanagh got it right in this morning's sSun before May had even opened her mouth.

TREVOR KAVANAGHIgnore all the false smiles, our Deep State is trying to turn Brexit into Wrexit

It is not surprising that a pro EU cabinet Secretary and a pro EU chancellor backed by a pro EU Cabinet are conspiring to keep us in the EU against the wishes of the majority of the British people. They are no doubt toasting themselves this evening on how the have put one over on us plebs. They should remember that Adolf Hitler came to power by exploiting the feeling of German ordinary people that they had been betrayed by their political elite at the end of WWI. We are in a war right now. Its the same enemy a resurgent German 4th Reich. People do not forget loss of thei loved ones  as quickly as politicians think they do. It could never happen here they say .Think again, it can and will if the UK people feel cheated.

Jacob Rees Mogg nailed it as ever on BBC2 Newsight


Stephen Harness said...

Jacob certainly sums up the situation perfectly. He also alluded to the reality of a minority government on a tightrope balancing the will of the people against the remainers. We almost have a situation in which a football manager greatly admires the opposition and almost wants them to win.
Nothing much is going to happen until Merkel is returned in the German election.

Eric Edmond said...

I doubt if much will happen after the German election. The EU are grinding our non-government into the dirt alas.

George Gray said...

Whatever happens electorally in Germany, they have huge problems coming down the line with the various scandals engulfing their pride and joy, their car industry. Most outside observers are aware of "Dieselgate" - which incidentally just keeps getting worse with wave after wave of fresh revelations - but surprisingly fewer people outside Germany appear to be aware of the even greater scandal brewing around the cartel organised by the top brass of the big three (Volkswagen-Audi, Daimler-Benz (Mercedes) and BMW). Merkel has swatted off Dieselgate to a degree but she is bricking it about the cartel, the consequences of which have the potential to do immense reputational and financial damage to German business. It also exposes the hypocrisy of those in Brussels and elsewhere who hold up Germany and certain other favoured EU states as "good Europeans" while bleating about how we in the UK are "bad Europeans". The cartel was explicitly designed to give the German manufacturers an anti-competitive advantage over non-German manufacturers.

Not that the EU's new pin-up boy Macron will be bothered, as with equal hypocrisy he is busy nationalising shipyards (and thus blithely flying in the face of his stated aim of liberalising the French economy) simply to stop the Italians from buying them, much to the Italian government's fury. More hypocrisy but you won't hear much about all that in the europhile parts of the media either.

Meanwhile, you're correct, May is utterly useless and vacuous. The sooner she is gone, the better.

Stephen Harness said...

If you sign treaties with countries who do not play cricket, you are going to get screwed. The UK should have learnt how to cheat but instead we allowed directives to be gold plated by our own bureaucrats. The money on offer will not be enough for the EU, Merkel may agree but if Germany does not step and increase their contributions the others will not do a deal.
As I have said, the debate over WTO rules needs to start because we may/should need to go for this.

Niall Warry said...

With silly comments like this "....... The EU are grinding our non-government into the dirt alas" you sound more like Farage every day! I'm of course not suggesting you support Farage, who used UKIP for his own ends and ruined it by failing to provide a suitable replacement leader. Your integrity is not in doubt where as he was corrupt and corrupting. However you do both support a hard Brexit and appear to have little idea of the short term consequences.

The solution, as advocated by those of us in the Leave Alliance, is to leave the political EU but remain, in the short term, in the EEA via Efta.

Eric Edmond said...

The smartest businessman I ever knew, ex-Army said negotiation is a war. We are currently losing our battle with the EU and will continue to do so until May falls on her stiletto heels and we get a leader who realises we are in a war with the EU and puts us on a wartime footing to face them otherwise we lose and we lose our country to the Fourth Reich.

The strategy is quite simple Major. You and North can make it as complicated as you like but we just walk away from these false negotiations. The EU is not negotiating in good faith a pre-requisite for any meaningful dialogue. We just say that we will go on to WTO terms in our EU trade from the end of March 2019 and we will pay the EU no more money from then.

Then Major we just wait.

Niall Warry said...

If you read Dr North today he predicts that it is very likely we will walk away.

What then hapens is that to establish the same level of seamless trade as we have now, as a 'Third country' will take years given that Canada took seven years to create a much simpler trade deal than we currently enjoy.

The trouble is in the meantime, while we negotiate our own bespoke deal, we have seriously shot ourselves in the foot and will suffer the economic consequences.

The Efta/EEA deal avoids this.

I think to describe negotiations as a war is plain wrong as they require both sides to compromise unlike a war when one side sets out to win.

Eric Edmond said...

The EU want total unconditional surrender from us. That's war in my book. I don't know what they teach at Sandhurst.

Stephen Harness said...

The referendum was fought on the topic of uncontrolled immigration. EEA/EFTA, even it is available, will mean we accept uncontrolled immigration. EEA/EFTA will include the Single Market which everyman and his dog said we would leave. I accept the referendum failed to produce intelligent debate but it did produce expected outcomes that cannot be reversed. EEA/EFTA could only work if all the political parties see as a stepping stone. They won't and because they will see it as a vehicle to renew membership. The EU have already indicated that the money on offer is not enough. As I have already stated, the prospect of WTO needs to be explained because that is where we are going.

Stephen Harness said...

I will also respond to the comment about "silly comments". At a spring IFCA meeting I witnessed fishermen being told they must adopt a new EU directive. One fisherman responded by explaining no other EU country enforces this EU directive or any EU fishing directive and that we are leaving the EU anyway. As a country we have been too willing to accept stupidity from the EU, even when accepting it closes down our industries. Let us go back to basics and remember why we are leaving the EU.

Niall Warry said...

You said "The EU want total unconditional surrender from us. That's war in my book. I don't know what they teach at Sandhurst".

You are so WRONG.

All they say is if we want to stay in the EEA we abide by the rules, associated costs and adjudication process. We can of course walk away and deal under WTO rules and suffer the consequences of less the favourable terms on less goods.

I say again you are just plain WRONG.

Eric Edmond said...

I disagree Major. WTO is good enough for 93% of world trade so why not us?

George Gray said...

I find the discussion quite amusing about whether or not this is war or a negotiation in search of a compromise, given that two of the principal players in the negotiations are Barnier and Verhofstadt from France and Belgium respectively, two states whose only apparent objective in the last two real wars on European soil in which they have been involved has been to compromise (i.e. surrender and submit to the invader) as rapidly as possible.

George Gray said...

I am of course being unfair regarding the role of the French in the First World War, but certainly not their role in the Second, nor certainly that of duplicitous little Belgium in either conflict.

George Gray said...

By the way, Dr Edmond, have you seen my post on your previous thread about food prices after EU entry? I have tried to bolster your argument in what I hope you will see to be a constructive way by arguing that it is better supported by figures from 1976 onwards rather than those from before. Please do have a look and let me know what you think - I put a considerable amount of study into it for you.

Eric Edmond said...

Dear Mr gray I have put my comments on the original blog

I hope you can access them from above. If mot go to my original post and it will be there at the bottom of the comments.

Niall Warry said...

You say - "WTO is good enough for 93% of world trade so why not us? "

The point is most of the countries of the world are NOT part of the sophisticated EU's Single Market which should they wish to join would require that they abide by the rules,regulations,costs and adjudication process.

We are of course part of the SM and could remain so via the EEA through Efta. This is NOT the final destination but those of us in the Leave Alliance believe that our existing trade with the EU is very important and none of it should be put at risk by leaving prematurely. In the EEA as part of Efta we immediately leave the political EU, can via Article 112 control F of M and are subject to the adjudication process of the EEA court and not the ECJ.

Long term, free of the EU, we need to help steer all 51 countries of Europe towards a new genuine free trade area.

Eric Edmond said...

China, US, Japan all export huge amounts to the EU single market. They have access and that is all we need.

Niall Warry said...

"China, US, Japan all export huge amounts to the EU single market. They have access and that is all we need"

Yes nobody says they don't trade with the SM BUT they do NOT have the access we do on anything like the same number of goods.

Until something better comes along it would NOT be sensible to jeopardise it.

Eric Edmond said...

The US,Japan & China do just fine with their access to the single market. Being a member costs a lot.

Stephen Harness said...

EEA/EFTA membership will mimic EU membership. Adoption of the 4 Freedoms and therefore unrestricted immigration from the EU countries. Also observing the ECJ legislation via the Court of the Free Trade Area. Also contributions. Also the EEA/EFTA solution is seen by the EU as a stepping stone to joining the EU and not an exit route.
We urgently need a champion to promote the WTO option before we are trapped in a twilight world.

Niall Warry said...

Sadly you actually don't know the necessary detail of what you write.

China has 36 seperate agreements with the EU worked out over many years on mainly manufacturing goods and that will involve costs to China as well as to be part of an EU/China adjudication process.

Our involvement in the Single Market is far more extensive, invlving many more goods and services, and mainly, so I'm informed, in perishable goods which I trust you will agree is of a different order.

Those of us in The Leave Alliance simply say initially we should NOT throw the baby out with the bath water. Where as the Hard Brexiteers unrealistically believe our trade will continue without any problems when we automatically become a 'Third Country' as we will when we leave.

Anything is possible given time, which we don't have, so as a transitional interim deal the Efta/EEA deal solves all the problems.

Eric Edmond said...


Stephen Harness said...

Fine if all political parties are on board for a destination. Labour are now going back on promises made during the GE and will join the LibDems if they suspect there is a vote in it.

Niall Warry said...

Kiss you say well the Efta/EEA option is just that as it makes a complicated transition relatively simple.

Read and digest:-